Al-Sultan Abdullah shares insights on his five-year reign as 16th King

KUALA LUMPUR: Below is the full interview with the Yang di-Pertuan Agong Al-Sultan Abdullah Ri'ayatuddin Al-Mustafa Billah Shah, whose five-year reign as Malaysia's 16th King comes to an end on Tuesday (Jan 30).

The Raja Permaisuri Agong Tunku Azizah Aminah Maimunah Iskandariah was also in attendance during the interview with top senior editors and reporters at Istana Negara recently.

Question: What was the most memorable moment, the biggest challenge, the sweetest or most challenging moment, or perhaps the saddest moment during your five years leading the country?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: First of all, I am thankful to God. Of course, there have been many sweet and challenging times during my five-year reign. However, I believe there are more good memories than not-so-good ones. If I were to share them all, it would be a long story. I tried my best to do what I could to calm the situation and stabilise the political scenario – not drastically but at least I managed to maintain harmony and stability.

Q: Can Tuanku share any good memories with us?

If I can look back from the moment I first came to Istana Negara, there were times when I thought about my role and my duties. I was going into a position I wasn't sure about – that was actually the challenging part. After that, I experienced many memorable expreinces, the latest being the 'Kembara Kenali Borneo' tour.

I got to meet and assist the people, help those in road accidents, got close to the people at food stalls and restaurants, took wefies and shared light moments with them. It gives me strength to get close to the people. So if you notice, I always went down to be with the people in any situation.

Q: How about sad memories?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: It was the loss of my father Almarhum Sultan Ahmad Shah Al-Musta'in Billah ibni Almarhum Sultan Abu Bakar Ri'ayatuddin Al-Mu'adzam Shah.

Besides that, it was the instability of the political situation. When the government was formed (following the 2018 General Election), we expected the country to be administered well but the opposite happened. Changing the government is not something that should be done arbitrarily as it brings no benefit to the country and the people. It is a waste of time, financial resources and more.

I am not here to deny any political party but based on experience, changing the government is quite detrimental to the country. We already have a set democratic process to have an election every five years. So, a government should be allowed to rule for at least four to five years and not changed arbitrarily after just one or two years.

We have observed this not only in Malaysia but also in some European countries – look at their economies now. Those were among the memories and experiences that are quite difficult for me to accept.

Q: Your Majesty reigned during a colourful period through many events and issues such as the Covid-19 pandemic and the political turmoil that resulted in four prime ministers within quick succession. Can Your Majesty describe the feelings and experiences throughout that period?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: The Covid-19 (pandemic) was indeed a very stressful time for me because we lost many people and we went through a dark period. Vaccines were difficult to get, perhaps there were some delays in receiving them. However, I acknowledge that the relevant ministries made various efforts to control the situation – we implemented lockdowns and movement control orders (MCO) which somewhat helped to reduce the spread of the virus. During that time, we had to endure many economic setbacks. Many of us suffered during the Covid-19 period and I sympathise with them deeply. It was an unexpected event and challenging for any King or government to resolve instantly. Fortunately, with the help of the people's prayers, we were able to overcome it as best as possible.

Q: Currently, we are still facing Covid-19 issues. Does Tuanku have any advice for the people?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: Most of us have been vaccinated so the number of fatalities (from Covid-19) is lower. However, we need to remain vigilant because the elderly are the most vulnerable, especially those with a history of heart and lung diseases. I would like to advise all, especially the elderly, to remain vigilant and wear face masks especially in crowded places.

Aside from that, I focused heavily on my duties as the Yang di-Pertuan Agong. Previously, I would meet with the Prime Minister for a pre-Cabinet session – which normally lasts for about 45 minutes to an hour – every Wednesday morning but I changed it to Tuesday afternoon. I have done this (met with the PM) 157 times.

For each session with the PMs, I would read the Cabinet papers the day before the meeting and if there were any Cabinet papers I need to ask about, I would definitely do so.

Whatever I agree with, I would agree to but whatever I disagreed with, I would disagree. Thankfully, I accepted all the views and advice of the PM and vice versa.

Likewise, if I had any concerns, the PM would inform the Cabinet. It was a reciprocal cooperation.

So, this is an experience (process) I think should be continued by all future Kings because it is a very good convention so that all state administrative matters can be resolved through consultation between the between the head of state and the head of government. If issues were raised during a session with Cabinet ministers, they were resolved in a proper manner.

I have here some notebooks that I used to jot down my criticisms and views from the PM from time to time. There are seven of them. I did not write down everything because Cabinet papers are thick. There were some 30 ministries and many things needed to be discussed by the Cabinet. I have to read all of them and I admit I love reading.

I delved into the details of the administration of the country. I never experienced this before at the Pahang state level. This is one of the things I have a keen interest in – matters pertaining to the administration of the country.

Q: Will the notes remain in your private collection, Your Majesty?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: Yes, this will remain in my personal collection. When I get older, I might share it with my children, how I played the role of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong. There is a lot here (pointing to the books).

Q: Do you have plans to release a memoir, Your Majesty?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: Many of my friends and some professionals have suggested this. It's possible but it will not be immediately (and only) if it is deemed appropriate. Ideally, it shouldn't come from me. I can't write about myself. Somebody else should write it. Perhaps somebody wants to write about me.

I have welcomed (a request from) a university to conduct a case study. I am more than willing to share my views pertaining to any matter or on anything I went through. But I think it's not fair for me to write a memoir and tell the world what I feel. I will keep it to myself for now.

Q: Most people perceive that Your Majesty is always calm when facing challenges. How do you maintain such a calm demeanour?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I was taught to be patient since I was young. When we pray and engage in frequent zikir (another form of prayers), it helps.

I'm not saying I'm an exceptionally pious Ruler, but with all the prayers and practices that we've been doing, it brings me peace at least. We leave it to Allah. As long as we pray to find peace, God-willing, it will come on its own. This is something that we cannot force.

However, I believe that in order to become a leader at any level, one needs to have patience and self-reflection, as well as not make hasty decisions.

If there is any doubt, we need to be patient first. That's how I handle any situation.

Q: Was there anything you believe that could have been done differently?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: On the economic and financial position, I will not go into details. But it is enough to say that the moment I walked in, I saw that the national budget from year to year had increased. At the same time, due to Covid-19, our budget has gone up.

When I came in, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad was prime minister. Every time I had a session with him, he would tell me that the government was under financial constraints. He told me that spending had to be controlled to the point that some big projects would have to be cancelled. I will not name those big projects.

I understood the rationale behind it, and I was new to the position. I can accept the situation. When he resigned and Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin took over, I noticed that there was a different story. There was money to spend on this and that. I cannot say who is right or who is wrong. Only Allah knows. But we all know that there is a slight increase in spending from year to year, as was announced in Parliament. This includes the spending during the Covid-19 pandemic and during the Emergency period. And I was not really satisfied when I was forced (by circumstances) to sign the Declaration of Emergency at that time. But due to the Covid-19 pandemic, I was forced to make a decision. Later, during Datuk Seri Ismail Sabri Yaakob's time, the Budget was about the same. All of this suggests that our fiscal situation was not that unsatisfactory, but it was alright. There was some growth in GDP, although not that high, and when compared with our neighbouring countries, we are on par, although we are not as robust as China or other big countries. So, what the current PM is trying to do is to control and tighten any extra spending and stop leakages. Nevertheless, the Budget remains high under these circumstances. Fundamentally, up to now, the government has borrowed about 60% of the GDP, which is still permissible within the legal system. I hope that it can be reduced gradually, from time to time, at least by between three and five% every year if possible. But you have to have smart financial management.

Q: What are the key lessons or takeaways throughout your Majesty's reign, and how have the roles of the monarchy changed over the years?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I am glad that I have played a small role in showcasing and highlighting the role of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong within the constitutional framework.

The Constitution states under Article 39 (the executive authority of the Federation shall be vested in the Yang di-Pertuan Agong and exercisable, subject to the provisions of any federal law), as well as under Article 40, in terms of the delegation of powers, they have been delegated to the PM and the Cabinet Ministers.

To a certain extent, the power to appoint the PM is among the three matters pertaining to the powers of the Agong: appointing the PM, convening the Conference of Rulers, and conferring titles, among others.

I would also like to emphasise under Article 40(1) of the Constitution, which it states that the Yang di-Pertuan Agong must heed the advice of the PM and ministers.

However, it is also mentioned that besides receiving advice from the PM, the Yang di-Pertuan Agong shall be entitled, at his request, to any information related to the administration of the country's affairs, which is available to the Cabinet. This demonstrates that the power of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong is significant, as, despite the need for advice, they can also obtain information and subsequently discuss it with the PM. Therefore, in all matters related to the country, the Agong can obtain information from any government office or any ministry, reflecting the extensive power of the King. Even though there is no executive power, it is sufficient to settle and manage state affairs within the constitutional context, as provided under the Constitution. In addition to that, the role of the Agong as the Supreme Commander of the Military can be further enhanced. Aside from inspecting the guard of honour, perhaps the role can be further improved. This is my personal opinion, and I cannot go into more detail.

Similarly, the police force has recently proposed to appoint Yang di-Pertuan Agong as the Pesuruhjaya Kehormat Polis Diraja Malaysia, which is expected to be discussed in Parliament in the near future. This is just a formality so that the Agong can wear the police uniform. It is only appropriate for the Agong to wear the police uniform because the police force is known as the Royal Malaysia Police. At the moment, it is not allowed.

Aside from that, in matters related to the Islamic religion, there needs to be further strengthening. We have seen a slight change in the structure of the National Council for Islamic Religious Affairs, where a Sultan appointed by the Conference of Rulers has been appointed as the chairman for a period of two years. Previously, the PM held this position, but now it is a Sultan, and at the moment, the Sultan of Selangor is holding the position. This is in line with the responsibilities of a Sultan to manage the religious affairs of each state.

Q: Tuanku has upheld the spirit of syura (consultation) among the brother Rulers during your time in Istana Negara. Why was this important? As others may say, as King, you should make decisions.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: You see, when I took the oath of office as the King, I was aware that my appointment was with the consent of the Conference of Rulers. So, whatever I do, at the same time, I act on behalf of the representative of the Conference of Rulers. Yes, it's true that all decisions are ultimately made by the King, but when it comes to any issue, I engage in consultation discussion, accept opinions, and consider suggestions. However, the decision of the day comes from the King himself. That was all I did. And it was not a decision made by the Conference of Rulers when it comes to the appointment of the Prime Minister; it was solely mine. I would like to clarify here that the appointment of the Prime Minister is the appointment made by the King. Whatever discussions or considerations, I will listen, and I will make my view known, but the decision is solely mine. That is all.

Q: Was this the unity government Tuanku Agong had proposed? Or was it strictly between Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim and Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin to discuss and decide?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: The idea of a unity government was not mooted recently. It was during Datuk Seri Ismail Sabri's time.

I had called all the (political) leaders at that time, and the Sultan of Perak was also present when the idea to establish a Unity Government was mooted.

Even though Ismail Sabri claimed to have a majority of 114 or 116 at that time, if I'm not mistaken, I still think it is very marginal. It's healthier if there is a two-thirds majority, a bit more than the marginal majority. So, the idea of a unity government came during that time. During the last general election, I wanted a harmonious situation in our country. It should start in Parliament; we cannot keep fighting or thinking differently. We want to develop our country and boost its good name.

So, after the election, there was still no single majority. What I did was offer to all the parties, starting with Tan Sri Muhyiddin and (PAS president) Tan Sri Abdul Hadi Awang. I didn't want to raise the matter again because they outright rejected it, and what choice did I have? Who can form the government? I also informed Prime Minister Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim at that time to make an offer to Muhyiddin's party and PAS, but what else can I do? Besides that, it's up to the political leaders' wisdom. My intention was simply to form a strong, stable government with all parties so that we could continue to build a stable, prosperous, and successful nation. That's all I did. However, I hope this can be achieved; you should not give up.

As for who the PM is, it's up to the top political leadership. The King doesn't choose the PM; it's the people who choose their elected representatives.

They may suggest a candidate; the King does not propose the PM's candidate. So, please get that fact right. The King does not propose the PM; it is the people who propose.

The King cannot appoint the PM arbitrarily; if that were the case, there would be no need for Parliament. We have clearly outlined the powers of the King as it is and the powers of the legislative branch as it is. That's what I fulfilled. We acknowledge there is no arbitrary power to appoint the prime minister; it is based on the support of the representatives through Parliament and other methods.

Q: How is the performance of the current PM? Does the current administration under Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim align with economic and unity concerns in Malaysia?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: It's not easy to gauge or provide a simple measurement for his performance within a period of one year. I believe... any government, for that matter, any PM, if we just measure it within a period of one year, will certainly still have some weaknesses here and there.

What the PM is trying to do is to reduce, if possible eliminate, all legacy issues. So, within a year, it's not possible to address everything so easily; it will be subjected to other matters such as rules and regulations as well as contracts and others.

However, what is important is that the government needs a long-term master plan, for instance, within a period of five years, 10 years, and so on.

We understand that this year there are various plans... A, B, C, D, E, including some policies that may not be popular, but sometimes the government has to make unpopular decisions for the betterment of the country. I hope this government continues to provide explanations to the people out there in terms of the long term and so on.

In the past, a former PM said he wanted to turn this country into a high-income nation. However, the current PM is aiming to introduce targeted subsidies.

That may be seen as somewhat of a drastic policy by some. Because I understand the feelings on the ground, it's not actually to take away the rights of the B40 groups, but more so for those high-income earners. That was the main intention. All of this is part of an attempt to introduce reforms. We need to give some time to see its pros and cons.

Q: How does Your Majesty view the role and function of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, not only as a symbol of national unity but also extending beyond that, as the people's hope when the country is faced with various major challenges?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I believe the Yang di-Pertuan Agong institution is crucial for a multiethnic, multireligious, and multiracial country.

We have to maintain this institution. It must be upheld for the sake of the nation and the benefit of future generations. If it can be further strengthened, not by giving more power, but by identifying areas where we can enhance it, we should do so. Even if the institution is strengthened, it is not about a specific Ruler – don't misunderstand this – it's about the institution. We, as Rulers, come and go. However, the Agong serve for five years and then return to their home state.

The institution needs to be further strengthened, not idolised but fortified, so that it continues to protect the people and the nation, providing effective governance.

The future Agongs need to understand this: it's not just about the next upcoming Agong; it goes beyond that. Alhamdulillah, we have been independent for 66 years; let's not question it anymore. We should be grateful and preserve this institution. Our people are now highly educated, so some want to try this system or that system. Change doesn't guarantee anything.

Just like changing the PM every year doesn't mean anything; that is the fact. Like changing the PM or changing the Cabinet, it doesn't guarantee anything.

I hope what I mentioned earlier is properly understood; if you want to question anything, perhaps at least wait for three to four years before questioning, not just over one year.

For instance, will you become an effective chief editor or director within just a year? There is not enough time to achieve anything. Even in marriage, becoming a husband or wife, it takes time, right? (drawing laughter from the floor).

Q: Tuanku mentioned the intention to strengthen the institution of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong. What are the ways to achieve this?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: This is not about giving more power to the Agong. Actually, it is quite simple – in schools, provide education to young children as before and teach them about history and also the roles of Kings and leaders, and make sure that it is not just one-sided. Teach the history of the royal institution and encourage discussions about strengthening the institution of kings, but this does not mean to criticise. All of us act within the constitutional framework. The Malay Rulers also need to understand their roles. I am not perfect, but I want to advise myself and share my thoughts with the other brother Rulers that all of us should know our roles and always get closer to the people, understand their problems, help them, and so on. These Kings had many roles and duties.

Tunku Azizah: There are many duties, but no overtime (drawing laughter from the floor).

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I hope the younger generation will try to come closer and understand the royal institution and not avoid it, as it is the right of the people.

Q: Talking about getting closer to the people, I believe it's already in Your Majesty's DNA, which Tuanku inherited from your late father. Are there any tips that are practised within your family? Any special 'ilmu' (knowledge)?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: That is a gift from Allah and the people who provide continuous support. The support has always been there, from the time of my grandfather and then my father, and I hope my children will be better than me. I must admit that my father has given me a lot of time and opportunities in terms of managing state administration, starting from my role as the Crown Prince of Pahang. When my Paduka Ayahanda completed his term as the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, my late father spent a lot of time abroad, so I took on some duties in Pahang. So, especially during the year-end monsoon season, I did not go anywhere; I am always here, every year here; I was never in Dubai. I was not anywhere at all.

Q: After the "Sheraton Move" and "London Move", now there are talks of the Dubai Move aimed to bring down the unity government. Should the people continue to live under such political uncertainties?

Tunku Azizah: The next move is to Pahang, the 'Pahang Move' (drawing laughter from the floor).

Al-Sultan Abdullah: We should not speculate on anything. I do not know whether there is any truth or not. Let's move on. The government should continue to govern the country and administer the national affairs. Don't engage too much in politics. To all the politicians, please reduce politicking and focus on developing the country's economy, boosting harmony among the people, and uniting all races. Let's not be parochial and narrow-minded. That's one of my sacred pieces of advice. I will feel sad to leave if I see the people are not united, and I hope this can be continuously addressed.

Q: What advice does Tuanku have to those irresponsible parties who are playing with the 3R (royal, religion, race) issues? What advice does Tuanku have for the people?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I think let us not go overboard; let there be some limits. I understand that sometimes there are some uneasy feelings, but I handle them appropriately.

Don't spread slander, don't use harsh words, and use something that is not pleasing in the eyes of the public. Each one of us, from different backgrounds, should practise elements of being courteous and respectful; we have to abide by that. There must be some decorum, as stated in the Rukun Negara. We need to follow what our ancestors had taught us previously.

Q: The 'Kembara Kenali Borneo' tour, which was held between Sept 3 and 13 last year, has become a phenomenon, with the people enthusiastically sharing moments throughout Your Majesty's family's tour of Sabah and Sarawak, especially on social media. In Tuanku's view, how was the tour inspired, and what are the sentimental values and experiences that Your Majesties gained from this programme?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I actually got the inspiration (to do the tour) during the earlier part of my reign as the Yang di-Pertuan Agong. I discussed with the Queen my desire to tour Sabah and Sarawak during the five-year period. Throughout my life, having been involved in football, I only visited Kota Kinabalu and Kuching and never ventured beyond that.

It occurred to me why I didn't explore beyond Kota Kinabalu and Kuching, and that became my desire—to see the conditions beyond those cities.

There was no other objective; I simply wanted to witness the beauty beyond Kota Kinabalu and Kuching, to observe the people, villages, different ethnicities, and their food and how they communicate. I admit it was one of the sweetest experiences, memories that will last a lifetime. Sometimes, when I'm not doing anything late at night, I will look back (at the recorded footage) until I shed tears. I feel deeply sentimental, remembering the unexpected and overwhelming warm reception that we received, as well as feeling extremely grateful.

Tunku Azizah: Indeed, we initially only planned to drive through the country. It wasn't with the intention of receiving a grand welcome. We just planned to drive and enjoy the beauty of the states, but unexpectedly, we received a very warm reception, which started in Tawau. What was supposed to be a half-hour drive from the airport to the hotel took six hours. That was just the beginning; we didn't know how we would reach Kuching. In Tawau, people advised us not to get off; if we did, there would be chaos.

But I insisted, and that's why Your Majesty and I came down to greet the people. It was never intended to be that kind of (official) visit; it was supposed to be a holiday for us.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: It was truly unexpected. And we are planning to return there someday. We want to come back. Maybe a little by little, not one stretch (of a journey). But Sabah and Sarawak are beautiful.

Tunku Azizah: There is so much beauty there, and the warmth. It was overwhelming for us.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I had actually planned to go on the tour in the early part of my five-year reign. But with the Covid-19 pandemic and political instability, I didn't want to cause difficulties for any party. So, that was the right time. Before the rainy season, only September was available, so I'm very happy.

Tunku Azizah: Your Majesty drove 2,154km throughout the journey. Tuanku drove all the way.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: In the meantime, I received many letters of complaints. This is the follow-up (points to a pack of files). Just got it yesterday; I haven't gone into details yet. These are all the actions taken (based on the complaints). I will read it one by one and see how to proceed. I want to show all the efforts undertaken by the government.

Tunku Azizah: When we were about to reach the Brunei border, we thought we could rest for a day or two before entering Brunei. But the people in Brunei were also waiting. They lined up until it reached our hotel. Your Majesty, there is no rest here (Raja Permaisuri told the King).

Q: How does Your Majesties feel when looking at the disparity in the lives of the people there compared to those on the peninsula during Your Majesties tour?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I have an answer to that question. We, in the peninsula, should be grateful for all the basic facilities that we already have in place.

But over there, I'm not trying to blame anyone here, but we need to understand the size there, which is twice as large as the peninsula.

Imagine building a road from village A to town A, here it might be about 200km, there the size is double, meaning the cost will double or even triple.

Financial considerations are crucial; a proper financial allocation is vital to ensure that government projects are implemented efficiently without any wastage.

Otherwise, the people will be left behind. Monitoring of the project and fund is important. I am very sympathetic (towards the situation) after hearing and seeing for myself longhouses abandoned near the highway, beautiful schools but with no water, and people crying out... There is no water for eight days. We also have the same problem here. But there, they need it more.

Another thing is that we saw that there was a bridge that was broken, and I'm grateful to the government. I saw it with my own eyes during my tour. Thankfully, the Federal Government will build a new bridge costing RM13mil to facilitate the villagers. At that time, I noticed a car on the other side, and I asked how it would cross to our side with that broken bridge.

They said that they had to wait for low tide to cross the river. Some had attempted to cross the river, but they got stuck. But, God willing, a bridge will be built there. And we will also help with the water issue.

Tunku Azizah: During our journey, when we stopped, some of the villagers gave us mineral water, fearing Your Majesty might be thirsty; they gave us food, worried that Your Majesty did not have time to eat. They gave us rambutan. Some gave us fruits.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I even ate a pack of rice given by the people there. It was truly unexpected; we are planning to come back again someday. Most of them came from far away; their journey took five to six hours, and they waited for us for another five to six hours with children and grandchildren; some were even in wheelchairs. That is overwhelming.

Q: Can Tuanku Raja Permaisuri confirm that Tuanku fostered a child during your tour?

Tunku Azizah: Yes. Actually, we were supposed to go back there last month, but there was a programme, maybe next month or the month after that. I fostered a child.

We will take care of her, and most importantly, we want to find medicine and find ways how to treat her illness. Actually, when we were in the mosque when Tuanku came out, Tuanku initially didn't notice, as Tuanku was shaking hands with many people. When His Majesty came close to me, I called Tuanku and showed him. But I took and hugged the girl; I felt so much sympathy and love. I said back to Tuanku that I wanted to foster the child and take care of her education and medical needs. Not taking her away from the family but providing medical care to the family who wanted help.

Q: Tuanku, may I get your views on the importance of political stability in promoting Malaysia's economic growth and attracting foreign investors to this country?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: It is important to have a stable country and a stable government. Changing the government, the prime minister or ministers may lead to significant policy changes in the administration. Foreign investors are especially closely observing this. They want to see a stable country where they can invest. If there is a government that keeps changing, I know and have observed this already. When this minister enters a certain ministry, the minister will change to another approach.

If the minister does not like an officer, the officer will be replaced, and everything needs to be changed, not only at the top level but also at the bottom level. This will slow down the administrative process. Malaysia is competing with other Asian countries in a highly competitive environment.

If we don't, we will be left behind. Especially in many aspects, and I appeal if you can understand what I am saying, it is true that changing the government doesn't mean it will bring stability or guarantee anything for that matter. We cannot afford to have an unstable country. We want to increase job opportunities, but who will create these job opportunities?

Besides the need to have a stable government, we need investments, and investors want to bring significant investments to create many job opportunities.

We are grateful for domestic investments, which also need to be increased. Domestic investments also require a stable government. For instance, if we request Project A, but it takes about six months to a year just to get approval, then it's over; they (the investors) will go elsewhere. We will lose so many opportunities. When we have no foreign investments, the government will incur losses and cannot collect taxes or any form of service taxes. It is always necessary to think about the long-term; stability is a crucial factor.

Q: Should Your Majesty's openness in meeting the people up close, which is a common practice by Tuanku and the royal family, be emulated as it has a very positive impact on the relationship between leaders and the people?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: That's the way I was brought up since I was young. If any leader wants to follow in my footsteps, it's up to them because that's my way, my father's way, as well as my grandfather's way. In Pahang, whenever there is an accident, I will stop, check on the victims, and take them to the hospital. Even when there is a fire, I will help them; that's my way. People might not know this, and I do not wish to publicise it. I've been doing it since I was young. Suppose people want to follow in my footsteps, Alhamdulillah. More people helping is better. Not just on specific occasions.

Tunku Azizah: It is in Tuanku's DNA.

Q: Your Majesty often involves your children, especially on the Kembara Borneo tour. Why did Tuanku choose to bring along all your children? How does Your Majesty see the value that can be instilled in your children?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: First of all, I will try to include my family in any programmes because that's the time we have. I am always with my family. Any programme must involve my family, we eat together as a family, we exercise together, and what more programmes to help the people. I try to bring my children along, and they want to join as well. So, it has become a family tradition.

Tunku Azizah: I have been married to Tuanku for almost 38 years. Since the early part of your marriage, Tuanku has brought me along to various villages, going here and there and in a relaxed manner, where we set aside royal protocols. When we had children, we brought them along. At times, Tuanku will have his own programmes, and I will be busy with my own set of programmes. Sometimes, when I returned to the palace, and at the same time Tuanku was about to leave to go to his event, we met at the palace entrance. So the children will see it, and they say, 'Aren't Mama and Baba tired?' But Tuanku will always encourage us to go out to meet with the people.

I am grateful that, even as the Crown Prince of Pahang, Tuanku, being at a young age (20 years old), when Tuanku's Paduka Ayahanda (Almarhum Sultan Ahmad Shah) was the Agong, Your Majesty went all the way out across Pahang to meet the people. Tuanku's father also encouraged His Majesty to do his own way, not instructing him in such a way. I sometimes wait for my children to do the same thing, and I want to say Alhamdulillah. They know what to do; it's been their duty since childhood to serve. Your duty is to serve the people, I told them. Your Majesty and I don't need to say anything. Today, he may be in Rompin, and shortly after, he will be in Gambang, Pahang. It's already in their DNA. They inherited it as Your Majesty inherited it from his late father, and his late father inherited it from Sultan Abu Bakar, and so on. This is the Pahang way, and I'm glad to be part of this great family.

Everything I do will be encouraged by Tuanku. Just now, a reporter asked about Cabinet papers; throughout the four to five years, every week, I did not disturb Tuanku until he had to wear a neck support brace, reading each paper page of the Cabinet papers. Now, there are about seven volumes of all Tuanku's notes. I regret not giving notebooks from the beginning of our marriage (drawing laughter from the floor). Since I got married to Your Majesty, every week, Tuanku will read the Pahang exco papers, every page of them. This shows Tuanku's dedication to serving the country. Tuanku takes the job seriously and understands that his duty is to serve the people. In five years, there will be seven volumes, and maybe (in Pahang), it will become a library. Maybe one day, we will publish a memoir. Alhamdulillah, Allah has given guidance to Tuanku. But not everyone can do it. You have to be born to do it. It is something you cannot simply act.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: Thank you for all your service as the Queen to the King. I must state here that my wife is the pillar of my strength during the (political) crisis during the Covid-19 pandemic. She also gives me a lot of encouragement.

Q: Is she the perfect Queen?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: Indeed, she has played a tremendous role as the Queen and as my wife. And I have to agree with you that she has given her full support to allow me to continue my duties as the King. Many things I discuss with the Queen, but many things I cannot mention to her. Tunku Azizah advises and discusses with me, but I make all the decisions, not Tunku Azizah. (drawing more laughter).

Tunku Azizah: I am the 'Suri permai', not the Permaisuri. I am the caretaker at home; I will take care of food; I decide on everything (pertaining to that). Tuanku takes care of the country, and I take care of the house.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: The role of the Queen is very prominent, helping and getting close to the people, especially women, and closer to her heart was helping prisoners and many other significant tasks. Besides that, as a mother and a wife, I acknowledge the support and assistance that the Queen has always given me. Alhamdulillah, I am grateful. The role of the Queen and the significance of Tunku Azizah has greatly assisted the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, and Her Majesty is an icon of fabric, especially the Tenun Pahang. It also helps enhance the country's international image.

Tunku Azizah: Actually, my interest was inspired by His Majesty; he told me about it. In the early stages of our marriage, during the process of having children, it took a long time. One day, Tuanku came to me and decreed, 'I think you should do something about Tenun, to which I said okay. I went to see it, and immediately, I fell in love with it.

That was how the journey started. But I could not have done it alone without the help from the government. I would like to express my sincere gratitude to the government, the ministry, and Kraftangan Malaysia for helping me set up the institute and assisting me in learning how to improve weaving production and others.

I was not alone in this; I was with the Pahang and Kuala Lumpur Kraftangan directors, while the ministry helped me a lot in revitalising the country's iconic craft. I would also like to thank the Prisons Department for appointing me as the patron of their rehab programme. But I am here not just to be there; Tuanku knows I have a deep interest in arts. If I didn't have that in me, I wouldn't have been able to go further. So, for someone to lead, they must have an interest, not just to hold a position for show. Tuanku encourages me in everything, including cooking. All this encouragement came from His Majesty. His Majesty gave me free rein, but I know my limits.

Q: Touching on the international arena, Tuanku has travelled internationally due to the good relations with many world leaders. It has greatly helped Malaysia increase trade and investment and even resolve global humanitarian issues. Has Tuanku been satisfied over the past five years? Are there still things left undone?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: For two years, due to Covid-19, we couldn't do much. I want to share my personal opinion; sometimes, I think during the meetings of Heads of State, such as Asean or Apec, or other international events, they should also consider allowing the Yang di-Pertuan Agong to represent the country at the international level. I say this because it can be beneficial to elevate the stature of the Agong at the international level and in order to gain more respect. It's open for debate. Sometimes, concerning climate change and humanitarian issues, perhaps the Yang di-Pertuan Agong might be able to represent the country. But not necessarily at all platforms; this is just my own view. Matters involving administration, finances, or security should be represented by the Prime Minister or a minister. I cannot spell out the details, but I think that, in the long term, it will portray a good image for the nation. I think the group of Malay Rulers we now have today are very educated.

Q: Has this matter ever been raised before?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: No, it has never been raised; this is the first time. But I have had these thoughts in the past five years. These are my views that are open for debate.

Tunku Azizah: I just want to say something as well: Over the years, His Majesty has dealt with the country's problems with the changes of four prime ministers and everything.

My role was to ensure that I was the heaven he came back to. There must be peace on one side to be the suri permai. Recently, when Tuanku returned to Pahang, Tuanku called me Ampuan Suri. Tuanku was playing around. I don't interfere in any of his affairs; I never open that book (pointing at Tuanku's notes). I don't know what His Majesty writes. His Majesty reads Cabinet papers; I never interfere. I once asked Tuanku about the experience with four Prime Ministers; how was it during the pre-Cabinet meetings? His Majesty refused to share.

Al-Sultan Abdullah: They are all different; one person is like this, and another person is like that. But all four of them are very experienced; look at their backgrounds; they have been in the government for several years. Initially, when I was sworn in, they had some experience. I have no experience. I became Sultan for only 15 days; then immediately, I was appointed as the Agong. You must understand where I am coming from. I have not been a Sultan for 15 years. There are many things that I don't know; I have to ask, learn, and read so that I can understand. Now, I hope to answer all of your questions to some extent. It is not as easy as people think to carry out the duties of the King. The future will be more challenging. I can imagine the challenges, but challenges are good for the King.

Q: His Majesty is a fan of Arsenal. Now they are a few spots behind Liverpool. Does Tuanku feel Arsenal can perform well this time?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: Arsenal is like a Bollywood hero. (laughter) Hopefully, they will win at the end of the season, I hope. (more laughter).

Q: Tuanku, can you share with us the first thing you will do upon returning to Pahang? What are the plans you are looking forward to back in your home state?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: There is much work to do. As I mentioned earlier, I have only been Sultan of Pahang for 15 days, so the people of Pahang have been waiting for me. I can't wait to visit every district; so many things need to be fixed and developed, and there are many poor people in Pahang.

Tunku Azizah: Tuanku can't wait to visit every district. We will go back to our home state, balik kampung. I will miss everybody in the Istana Negara. This has been my family for the last five years. I will miss them. Thanks to Allah for the opportunity to lead for five years. Sorry if there are any shortcomings.

Q: Now that it has reached the end of your reign, is this what Tuanku imagined the role would be like?

Al-Sultan Abdullah: I would like to express my gratitude to all the media for their cooperation with the Istana. Apologies if there are shortcomings, and I am grateful and hope that the people reflect and provide all cooperation to advance and enhance the country's economy and unite our people of all races at all levels. I haven't taken a salary until now (laughter); thank you for letting me stay at the Istana Negara. After returning to Pahang, I will continue my role as the Sultan of Pahang. Maybe there will be a slightly different role. The role of Pahang and the country is a bit different. I can't ask for more; it could have been better. Certainly, I hope the next King and future kings will be better than me, and I think the Queen will agree with me. Before I summarise my speech, I would like to quote my father's line: 'It's not that I don't like Malaysia, but we love Pahang more.' But my line is: I may not be the King of Malaysia after January, but if I can be, the King of all of your hearts.